tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4694505809435969577.post5449501491574481548..comments2023-09-20T11:46:19.647+01:00Comments on M&G Go For A Walk: Wild Camping: The LegalitiesGaylehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08648378503343413924noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4694505809435969577.post-68790306757483511362010-04-05T18:33:51.295+01:002010-04-05T18:33:51.295+01:00A really good article that covers a lot of the det...A really good article that covers a lot of the detail really well.<br /><br />One sentence at the start of the Legal Position part lets it down and has probably caused a lot of these comments. If you change the paragraph to:<br /><br />Well firstly, trespass is a civil wrong, not a criminal offence*. As such although wild-camping is not permitted by law, it is not <i>criminal</i> (a subtle distinction), so you are unlikely to gain a criminal record by pitching your tent on a mountainside*<br /><br />Then I am sure it would read better. There used to be laws to ensure that Gipsies and Tramps were able to spend the night to rest when evicted for trespassing before moving on in the morning, but I believe these were eroded in the 1980's dues to Gipsy caravans finding it safer to camp on village greens than camp on a farmers field and face a farmer with a shotgun.<br /><br />In the 1990's, several large rave parties that were trespassing on farm land were allowed to continue by police, with at least one case where the farmer was warned/detained by the police for public order offences when he tried to evict the party goers personally.Michael Shawnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4694505809435969577.post-29307570542745180892010-03-05T20:36:47.366+00:002010-03-05T20:36:47.366+00:00Thanks a lot for this post. I'm planning on do...Thanks a lot for this post. I'm planning on doing a lot of wild camping in England (and Scotland, where it is completely legal) in the summer (2010). I know it is technically unlawful (as opposed to illegal), but I also know a lot of other people who have done this, so I was just wondering what the consequences would be if I got caught. Knowing that it is viewed as a civil matter is a great relief.<br /><br />Thanks for the information.Johnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4694505809435969577.post-46304164728834945592010-02-01T04:13:02.646+00:002010-02-01T04:13:02.646+00:00Interesting post.
Certainly some things to thing ...Interesting post.<br /><br />Certainly some things to thing about. Only once have I been caught camping where I should'nt. The landowner came over and his exact words where "Be gone by 7am, and leave nothing and there will be no problem."<br /><br />Every time I wildcamp, the only sign I was there is a flat patch of grass. <br /><br />I fully support the motion of bringing Wildcamps into lawAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14096027577387571235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4694505809435969577.post-40129953936793326772008-06-26T10:55:00.000+01:002008-06-26T10:55:00.000+01:001) Definitions!"Illegal" = you can be prosecuted -...1) Definitions!<BR/>"Illegal" = you can be prosecuted - it is criminal.<BR/><BR/>"Unlawful" = you have no right to do this - your victim, if any, can sue you for compensation.<BR/><BR/>2) Remedies:<BR/><BR/>The "Landmanager" as we say here in Scotland, which avoids distinctions between owners, trustees, tenants and others, can sue for damages, which if no damage, used to be a farthing, and no costs, and now, I think, is 5p (a shilling) and no costs, but also for "injunctive relief", that is to say, a mandatory order from the Court that you do it not again, never, or for a period. A Landowner, whose lovely (?) daughter is about to get spliced in the sweeping gardens of his stately pile, might want a prohibition against photographers from Hullow or similar camping in his shrubbery!<BR/><BR/>Otherwise, I am in agreement with your summary, with the one addition that when requiring you to git orf his land, he can reasonably specify the route!<BR/><BR/>Richard<BR/>(who retired from soliciting ten years ago, and has since acquired a LLB(hons) via the OU)Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18319912007268816030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4694505809435969577.post-79538802627157865442008-06-25T14:51:00.000+01:002008-06-25T14:51:00.000+01:00this is a really useful peice of information. Than...this is a really useful peice of information. Thanks for that. Far more informative than anything I have read on the internet yet.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4694505809435969577.post-21954306805129312702008-02-05T19:00:00.000+00:002008-02-05T19:00:00.000+00:00Litehiker says:In the case of wild camping, a civi...Litehiker says:<BR/>In the case of wild camping, a civil action could be brought for trespass but would only succeed if the landowner could show that damage had been caused.<BR/><BR/>In Scotland I think this would be true, but NOT in anglo-england! Trespass to land is actionable, per se. If zero damage had been done, the land owner / tenant would be daft to sue, because he'd not be likely to get more than a farthing damages, AND pay his own costs. He might, however, seek injunctive relief, an equitable remedy in the discretion of the court.Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18319912007268816030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4694505809435969577.post-20144864454907076452008-01-30T13:15:00.000+00:002008-01-30T13:15:00.000+00:00Civil and criminal matters are dealt with in diffe...Civil and criminal matters are dealt with in different courts. A crime can be punishable by fine or imprisonment (and other various non-custodial penalties, e.g. community service order).<BR/><BR/>A civil action is usually brought to recover damages. In the case of wild camping, a civil action could be brought for trespass but would only succeed if the landowner could show that damage had been caused.<BR/><BR/>If, for example, a wild camper had trashed the landowner's land, the landowner could sue for damages and possibly lay charges for the camper to be charged with causing criminal damage.<BR/><BR/>None of this applies to "leave no trace" wild campers; they always either ask for permission to camp or camp out of sight and move on. If asked to move on having camped without permission, then the camper should move on.Litehikerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03138956571978400444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4694505809435969577.post-22452733701437023472008-01-30T11:38:00.000+00:002008-01-30T11:38:00.000+00:00For AktoMan, I'd say that "illegal" means you can ...For AktoMan, I'd say that "illegal" means you can be prosecuted in a criminal court for this,<BR/><BR/>whereas<BR/><BR/>"unlawful" means that the "victim" (and no one else) can sue you for damages, or other relief, in a civil court.<BR/><BR/>To nit pick, I don't think that the small claims procedure is relevant, because there you have to sue for a sum certain in money.<BR/><BR/>What I can forsee is a land owner (or tenant) who is able to identify a wild camper who cut down trees, left litter, etc sueing for an injunction to prohibit a repeat.Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18319912007268816030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4694505809435969577.post-51707275342133574672008-01-28T21:38:00.000+00:002008-01-28T21:38:00.000+00:00Good post, Gayle."Illegal" = contrary to the law. ...Good post, Gayle.<BR/><BR/>"Illegal" = contrary to the law. Is there a distinction between civil and criminal?<BR/><BR/>"Crime" = and act punishable by law. Is there a distinction between civil and criminal?<BR/><BR/>Is there a lawyer in the house?<BR/>:)AktoManhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00464579446969241392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4694505809435969577.post-32255667894396047602008-01-28T19:45:00.000+00:002008-01-28T19:45:00.000+00:00That answered some questions of mine and was infor...That answered some questions of mine and was informative. It's difficult to keep such a legal situation simple - but I think it was explained clearly. You should have been a lawyer.gingehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10265663419386393597noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4694505809435969577.post-47791170352173380472008-01-28T15:37:00.000+00:002008-01-28T15:37:00.000+00:00Thanks GayleThat will do for me - It's sort of as ...Thanks Gayle<BR/><BR/>That will do for me - It's sort of as I expected.<BR/><BR/>Interesting. It could throw up a form of protest with 'difficult' landowners that could cause them maximum inconvenience for very little reward and considerable cost to themsleves, if thought out properly by the protesters.<BR/><BR/>That has set me thinking.<BR/>:-)Alan Slomanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17966543499033330765noreply@blogger.com